Friday, March 13, 2009

Grudge Match: Batman vs Captain America

I can only think of two occasions that I have read where Batman fought Captain America and it was during that Marvel vs DC crossover of 1996. I liked the was it was done....respectful of both characters! I mean Batman is the best hand-to-hand combatant of the DC Universe and Captain America is the best in the Marvel Universe. Neither have superpowers so it was all about martial arts skill. Batman won because of luck and he admitted that. We all know that in real life, from our point of view, chance always plays a part in what ever happens. Therefore I was happy with that fight the most, compared to the others showcased in the limited series. I'm not really sure who would win if I had wrote the story. You can read the Comic Book Universe Battles for a take on Captain America vs Batman.

The other occasion is the long awaited JLA/Avenger crossover. I got it at this years' Wondercon! It's a great story. One of the best parts of it is where Captain America and Batman fought...feeling each other out and decided that they were too evenly matched and that their time should be better spent figuring out what was really going on and who their true enemy was.

As for the mugen battle for this post, I pitted Infinity Mugen Team's Batman against Infinity Mugen Team's Captain America and then Spiderbat's Batman versus Infinity Mugen Team's Captain America with each fight being computer controlled. Here is the fight.


  1. There was also a third time where they faced off. It was an elseworlds crossover which took place in the second world war I believe.
    Here is the link:

  2. I hated to break it to you but Steve Rodgers does have super powers he is a product of the super soldier elixir ie (*see his origin)

  3. NO, Steve Rogers does NOT have super-powers! His body has been improved to its physical limits through Vita-Rays and the Super-Soldier Serum. He's effectively no faster or stronger that Batman. He just started off puny and under-nourished and could not reach human perfection through training, as the healthier, well-fed Bruce Wayne could.

  4. Umm, actually, Robert, you're wrong. Bruce wayne is not at the physical level of steve rogers, if steve is the captain america we are talking about, and not bucky. Captain america was given the super soldier serum, making him as strong, fast, and agile as any human being CAN be. he can run a mile short of a minute, bench press 1200 pounds, and more. These traits are not possible in any normal human at the same time. To be that strong, the person's body mass would not allow such speed, except for steve rogers(due to the serum). It also prevents his body from producing fatigue hormones, meaning he never truly tires, or it takes him very long to do so. In other words, he is physically superior to batman. Just sayin. :PPPPPP

  5. I have to agree with the last post. However, both sides of this debate make a good point. Steve Rogers is a super human. Like spider-man, his abilities are the result of some type of scientific experiment. I wouldn't say that Cap has "powers" exactly, but rather "abilities." Steve Rogers has every possible ability that can be achieved by your above average human. This means increased strength, a very high IQ, agility, etc. In essence, he is the epitome of the perfect physical human. But Bruce Wayne isn't that much different. He also has an incredibly high IQ, exceptional strength, agility, and tons of combat training. The difference is, Bruce had to work to get to this point. And of course Steve Rogers is going to score higher in some areas than Bruce, but probably not in all. The thing that really makes this match up so interesting, is the fact that they both have boundaries, lines they won't cross. Cap is the ultimate boy scout, but Batman is more of a wild card because he makes his own rules. This is where the match up gets interesting.

  6. I think we are making the mistake of thinking of Batman as a normal human being. This was a Man trained in the arts of physical endurance beyond any normal training means. He traveled the world pushing himself to match that of any feat a human can do. Including Steve Rogers. Steve Rogers was granted this ability through a serum and was trained by the best. I cannot take that away from him, he is an amazing superhero. However, to discount batman simply because he wasn't given a drug is ludicrous. Batman has all the same difficulties as Steve, he has traversed parallel universes, all over his own and no matter where he goes the Bat becomes an object feared, respected, and cowered to. Capt simple goes in does his job as he always does and bounces. Of course people are going to respect a no non sense attitude like that over a loner. But, make no mistake, these two are the most evenly matched of both franchises top hitters. ( because Capt. Marvel will always have magic over superman to make him look a punk, lest we forget Kingdom Come)

  7. it would be a great fight. even with the serum,cap would struggle....hand to hand combat no weapons,cap would win. both of them with all their weapons bruce would win(more weapons) if cap had all the weapons(shield&avengers mansion)at his disposal like bruce....draw...

  8. captin america straight up turned into a freakin werewolf. werewolf cap would stomp him into to the ground. flat. but i give props to batman for taken on spawn.that was a good battle. i think it would take spawn and batman to take out cap wolf.

  9. but you guys are forgetting something...captain isnt a SUPERHUMAN...hes only as strong as any human can hes just the strongest way in hell is a human ever is going to win a fight against a superbeing...i mean they over exaggerate his "strength"...he can only bench press 1100 pounds and takes out the hulk wolverine and iron man at the same time nooo......the hulk can press 100 of times more...all he has to do is flick his finger and his head pops off...

  10. Batman is more like an Olympic athlete. Cap is superior to any Olympic athlete. Even if Batman were able to match Cap in physical feats, one thing Batman does not have is Cap's endurance and no amount of training will give him that. All things being equal, Cap would outlast Batman in any single hand-to-hand encounter.

  11. Wow. What the heck is batman anyway? He's matched with Cap?!! I did read the comic, and it did say that. Amazing. Batman should be able to take out any human villain no sweat. Joker and Bane have nothing on him!

  12. This is kind of an interesting debate to see here.

    In my opinion, Batman would take Cap out, and here's why:
    Strength goes to Cap, because of the super-soldier serum. That's a given.
    Hand-to-hand expertise, I would consider a draw; both are among the best H2H fighters in their respective universes, and due to lack of an established figure (meaning, since they've never given any true definition of their prowess other than occasional comparisons and the whole "one of the best" thing), it's hard to put one over the other.


    Batman's psychological and tactical expertise, in conjunction with the extensive training he's given himself in all aspects of what he does, not just fighting, gives him the edge.

    Batman's used to fighting people stronger than him, even people who aren't just lumbering muscleheads, people who KNOW how to fight, he still comes out on top. It's what he's trained himself to do.

    In a H2H fight between Batman and Captain America, I predict that it would be a long, even fight, but the longer it dragged on, the more Batman would rely on his brain rather than his fighting. He would keep his distance, and figure out how to cripple Cap. Cap, while being an excellent field tactician and strategist, doesn't possess that keen deductive instinct that Batman has, and thus, I believe that factor decides the fight.

    And that's if weapons aren't involved. If they are, easy advantage to batman. Utility belt > Vibranium shield.

    1. Utility belt > Vibranium shield

      only because batman's utility belt magically has anything batman could ever possibly need, even if it doesnt even make sense that he would even have it

  13. Ahem.

    Bats doesn't always come out winning. its also true that in a prolonged fight, cap will win since the serum puts a stopper on fatigue poisons. besides, cap is at the pinnacle of human physical perfection, ARTIFICIALLY and not work-hardingly (hehe). bats really is human, cap isn't. without any sort of prep for bats against cap, and with no weapons and gear at all, cap wins if its a prolonged fight. bats wins if its a regular basis fight. the one with their standard gear and preparation. bats is just that devious.

  14. A couple of things. As one poster pointed out, Cap is the Apex of Human Ability.
    Performance perfection. Even then, the TRUE limits of human conditioning are ever (slowly) increasing. Cap is in CONSTANT training mode.
    what is Steve Rogers generally doing in his "spare" time?
    Bruce Wayne?
    'Running' a company/ providing a public 'face'/deflecting any suspicion he may be the Bat.
    I'm certain he trains to maintain. But he is also stubborn to a fault with doing his OWN detective work.
    He usually won't trust others to help.
    That's gotta be time consuming.
    He's also GOTTA be a bit worn down from all the damage he's taken over the years.
    Cap has the benifit of the serum repairing/maintaining that 'pinnacle human form'.
    Again, He is the PINNACLE in all human areas.
    Technically, looking at EACH of his abilities, no, he's not TRADITIONALY Superhuman. He's the Fastest (arguably) humanly possible in SPEED. Strongest in strength, Most endurance with Stamina, Quickest possible brain. (problem solving, snap-decisions etc.) which helps account for his UNCANNY Accuracy with his shield.
    It's a tricky category he's in. He's Human. He's Super-Human.
    I guess since he's NOT chucking a half ton boulder with one hand, Marvel categorizes him as human.
    Now for Batman to have the strength Cap has? AT BEST he'd end up as built as comic BANE.
    There goes Speed. Possibly there goes endurance.
    What Bruce has done is pushed his body to ITS point of perfection. HE HAS PERFECTLY BALANCED HIS ABILITIES.
    So Cap kinda outclasses him there.
    Bruce has a very keen mind tho. SCARY KEEN.
    He has studied sciences. Caps mind might be every bit as keen (if not more) than Bruce's, but he won't know the chemistry/science Bats knows, simply because he hasn't studied it. Cap is more the strategist. Cap is very 'adapt to the moment' type guy.
    Batman is more, let me prepare in advance for every contingency I can think of.
    They Will be closely matched in fighting skill.
    BOTH (key word) fight opponents MANY TIMES STRONGER/MORE POWERFUL than themselves. NOT JUST BATMAN.
    Cap doesn't fight guys who 'play fair' either. (which is why I scratch my head when people think it guarantees the win for batman because he 'cheats')
    Cap has Bats at an advantage.
    But that won't guarantee Cap the win either.
    I see this as being a loooong fight.
    Cap would be amazed at the tenacity of Batman.
    But I see Cap taking the win in the end.
    If it were 'multiple round fight', then out of 5 rounds, I'd see 3-2 in favor of Cap.

  15. BATMAN...super intelligence CAPT.AMERICA....super soilder. bats......utility belt weapons. cap...indestructable shield if they fought 10 times bats win 5.. cap win 5.... to even they both would collapse from exaustion= DRAW

  16. batman would just tell his car to runover cap splash

  17. As the fight dragged on Captain America's endurance would put him far ahead in combat, but Batman's deduction would figure the Captain out at the same time, very hard to call this fight.

  18. Also Captain America does have a super power celluar regeneration. He's able to heal from bullet wounds in a day, bearly feel pain, and he almost impossible to knockout becuase he regenerates brian cells to the point were he can't get drunk. Also posions,toxins,venoms, and most gases don't work on him.

    Captain America has also mastered 16 martial arts including his that he invented, and ranks thrid greatest martial artist, frist H2H expert. In the Marvel Unverise, don't forget he beats batman in tatical moves and was tought by ww2, and modern west point.

    I have about 2000 comics with captain America. Its not a popularity contest or luck its them randomly meeting and fighting. without prepareing batman would loose like in many of his comics if you would read some. Stan Lee made sure that Joe Simmons character wouldn't be bullied by the new heroes of the 60's, making him a living LEGEND.

  19. I think the only thing that we all need to remember is that Batman beat Superman. And though Superman is a chump, he is easily stronger and faster than is Captain America. Batman has the brain for combat, and Captain America cannot contend with that. I love Captain America, but I have to give this one to the Batman.

  20. Those that said Capt is superhuman were wrong. The serum only allow him to be a perfect human being. Now please do not mistake it as a RPG game where Capt would get 100 spd 100 str 100 endurance, The serum only pushed his cell to the limit of their DNA encoded, The Serum did not altering his DNA; therefore only his cell attended max potential and this is no different than Batman. Batman had undergoes training; eating; to push his cell to peak of human ability. So there is no different in physic abilities between Batman and Captain America.

    Now about intelligent, the Serum may or may not granted him the brain, bu even if it did, the best Capt could do is memorize stuff. A human mind need training to develop, Capt cant suddenly in 10 years of fighting would be the tactician as Bats since Bats trained through out his youth to acquire that. It's like you could have a great brain but you dont have any school education at all. So Capt will never ever as smart or good at tactic as Bats.

    Abilities Capt is no where as good as Bats in H2H combat. Do you know at what age that Bats started his training ? And the serum did not grant him the abilities to fight good, you have to train to know how to fight, which is why he need the shield to protect him while fighting. I dont care that how many martial arts he master AFTER the serums; he had less time and determination to train than Bats. Bats also immune to most of posion including Scarecrow fear gas through hard training. And as i have said; the serum only push Capt's cells to peak of DNA encoded therefor he is noway better or stronger at anything than Bats since Bats had trained to push his condition to peak.

    Last point; Bats patrols Gotham city every night. Anyone think doing acrobat every night without any sleep isn't training is just an idiot.

    So conclusion, Capt vs Bats. Bats would win easily.

  21. Actually, above Anonymous poster, you are very, very wrong. I've noticed many people are confused about how "super" Captain America is.

    The super soldier serum that was given to Steve Rodgers by Dr. Erskine during Project Rebirth did indeed push Captain America's abilities to the peak of what human beingd are capable of. But this peak is just short being truly "superhuman". Captain America has been observed pressing 1100 to 1200 pounds. The current world record is 1075. There is no way Batman is that strong. People train for years and never get that strong. Captain America can run a mile in a minute. The fastest record for that is 3:43. Batman isn't that fast.

    Cap is obviously the superior tactician. Batman is a loner. Captain America trained in the ultimate tactical enviroment, leading men in combat.

    As for hand to hand combatants, I would say they are both equal. Both have mastered many different forms of combat, and both have used that knowledge to overcome stronger opponents.

    Noone has more determination that Cap. Cap IS determination. That's his whole thing. He keeps getting up after getting knocked down. He was a tiny, sickly kid that wanted to enlist so he could fight in World War Two.

    Conclusion: Cap and Bats are equally skilled, but Cap beats him in strength, speed, determination, and tactics.

    1. Anyone who reads batman would definetly raise a brow at your noting how captain america has more determination than batman. Determination is honestly probably equal through out all super heroes but batman in particular not on ly has the determination to fight, but the determination to stick to his moral code, even after the one who was practiclly his son was killed at the hands of his arch nemesis, and that said said came back from the dead crying out to batman for vengance, and batman denied him. Tactics, this is a one on one battle correct? If you're asserting batman is a loner and that would make him lose, then you forget this is a one on one battle, not a team fight. And batman has had plenty of time to train at fighting alone, and winning alone.

    2. Actually in every reading Ive been able to find states that Batman has pushed himself to the peak of human conditioning through sheer will alone. His given stats are he can bench 1000 pounds, and leg lift 2500. So no matter what, both men are at peak human condition to what their bodies can go. Cap got his in a bottle and Bats got his through pure work. To top it off, Bats knows 120+ different forms of martial arts(armed and unarmed). Cap can box.... and he has acquired some basic martial skills from his time in the military, which during WW2 was very limited as there wasn't the world wide access to foreign martial styles(Asian martial arts were not taught to Americans), and his time in the present. And as far as will and determination goes, lets just say that Bats has turned down a GL ring before. Also, Bats has fought opponents with just about every bone in his body broken at one time or another, it took a broken back to stop him, and he came back from that as well. Weapons, well yeah lets not go there because Cap lost that fight before it even started. And its not that Bats NEEDS them, he just has them because it makes his job easier. So Physically(strength, speed, and agility) they are about the same, Cap getting a slight, and I mean SLIGHT advantage there. Martial skill, Bats, Weapons, Bats, Will and Determination, Bats. Now the two things that could sway the battle dramatically comes in the form of 2 glaring differences in their moral codes. Bats will cheat. He is smarter and way more cunning than Cap could ever be. While he is a strategist like Bats, he just doesn't have the cunning to keep up with Bats. Every fight that Cap gets into devolves into a drag out brawl. Bats on the other hand will sneak past, knock out, and basically avoid what he can when he can and sneak up on and take out from surprise or stealth what he cant. And if he has time to prep, Cap doesn't have a chance. Best said in the A-Team movie "Give me a minute, I'm good. Give me an hour, I'm great. Give me six months, I'm unbeatable." On the other hand, Cap has been a soldier in a real war. He will kill if he must. In most cases he can defeat his enemy with out it, but you don't carry a gun to say hello. Batman will not kill. even when faced with the idea of fighting the same villains over and over, he wont kill.


      Captain America reps weights at 1100 lbs and curls 500 lbs. Batman is struggling to get 630 lbs off of the floor and pulls a muscle. If Batman is wearing some of his WayneTech Superman-buster stuff, then sure I can see him pounding Captain America but the Captain is a much more durable, agile and stronger physical specimen than Bruce Wayne. I love the Batman (more than Cap) but there is a big difference between being a peak-human specimen such as Bruce and being a paragon of human perfection such as Captain America. Cap can see bullets and dodge them while Batman relies on his martial arts training and skills. Captain America is a renowned martial artist as well and very experienced. I just cant see Wayne coming out on top against Rogers but it would be one heck of a fight!

  22. DC equivalent to Cap is Deathstroke. Granted he is a villain but in terms of H2H skill, intelligence, even their Strength is comparable.

    Batman fought Deathstroke to a stalemate, both had so much skill they couldnt out-do the other.

    Cap and Bats would be the same scenario.

  23. Cap is an elite tactician. Bats is a loner. One who has always depended on himself to escape a situation either by defeating it or dodging it. Even if Cap has upper hand in all aspects over Bats, one thing which he can't outclass bats and the thing which would allow Bats win is his tenacity to survive..

  24. 0.o No one mentioned that Batman is a Super genius in maths,physics,chemistry,geography,strategy,criminology,history,forensics,computer science and engineering and let's not forget that Batman has a willpower that surpasses Superman's and maybe even Hal Jordan's so to say that captain America has greater determination is just not true.

  25. While in a hand to hand combat cap has a slight edge over batman. But you need to remember batman can bench press 1000lbs and leg press 2500lbs. He is the peak of human perfection without physical enhancements his batsuit has several batarangs, grapples, a built in body taser, he has mastered 127 martial arts, he can memorize body movements and attacks, he has a glider for a cape, and in a true fight the second he started realizing that a head-on fight is pointless, he would go stealth mode and use his master detective skill to dominate captain America.

  26. I dunno where most of you are getting these numbers from for batman, but I've never heard that ever. cap just out classes batman in almost every way. cap wins in strength, speed, intelligence, prep, he never fatigues, he heals faster. Deathstroke and cap would be a draw. and Deathstroke beat batman to a bloody mess. Oh and cap will kill too. batman won't. No gases, diseases, infections, viruses effect captain America either. plus cap has mastered every martial arts and fighting style there is. he also made up his own fighting style. he fought in ww2 and has military training. is an expert with his shield that's made of vibranium/Adimantium. when he throws his shield he can predetermin how it will bounce. Cap has beaten the hulk and Thor in a fist fight. also is the only person or character to ever be able to pick up mijlnor except for Thor.

    sorry batman fanboys... batman is just out classed in this fight.

    1. you are delusional. Cap is a fucking retarded chimp compared to Batman. i don't want to get into the physical stats because they change too frequently, but in no incarnation ever has Captain America come anywhere close to as cunning, resourceful, learned, or as analytically brilliant as Batman. period.

  27. It's painfully obvious that many responders here either know nothing of Captain America or they are just DC fanboys.

    As is accurately shown in the movie, Cap is stronger and faster than a un enhanced human can be. Even Batman, with all his training can't match him physically.

    Fighting skills for both are at levels beyond anything normally reachable by a human. Batman has dedicated his life to the martial arts while Cap has used his enhanced mind to learn them as well. He fought in WWII and has spent every waking moment since the 1960's perfecting them. To say he isn't Batmans equal at H2H just shows either an ignorance of his character.

    Both are experts with weapons. Both have a level of determination and force of will that cannot broken.

    Captain America won't tire and he will heal from a blow in just minutes. Batman can't match him there.

    Batman is second only to Sherlock Homes as a detective and will research Cap completely if possible before they fight. Cap will instantly adjust tactics as the fight goes on. Batman does have armor that can help him against Cap and an array of tools that will more than offset Cap's shield.

    Here is the thing though, in know way could anyone, especially Bruce Wayne, think Captain America was a criminal. Cap is far to noble and Bruce cannot be duped. On the other hand, even if he was given misinformation, Steve Rodgers would quickly discern that Batman was no criminal either. He's spent his life fighting the noble fight and he doesn't make those mistakes.

    These guys won't fight each other long enough for Caps endurance to matter. Nothing could make them do that. As shown in the crossover, once they begin to respect each other, they join forces against the common enemy. Any other result dishonors and disrespects who they are.

    I'm a Marvel fan, but truthfully, Batman is more interesting a character. I think he's the best one DC has created. That said, any fight will end as a draw and I pity the bad guy who caused them to fight in the first place.